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Interview with

Adrian Hates

Not much time passed since the release of ‘Nekrolog 43’ in October 2007. Already 1.5 years later, a new album is coming up. (if), so the title, will be released on 13th March 2009. Reason enough to invite mastermind Adrian Hates to an interview.

Good tempered but a little tired he’s sitting in front of me. Slight shadows under his eyes imply that he hadn’t too much sleep lately. Next to me on the table is a Red Bull... so I wouldn’t fall asleep during the interview… Before we start, he hands me a fresh copy of the album. Excited I’m flipping through the booklet and immediately I’m impressed by the photos. Annie Bertram once more delivered ingenious work. After Adrian got us both a glass of wine - you have to grease your voice with so many information you want to spread - we can start already…

Reflections of Darkness (RoD): First things first, thanks for taking the time for this interview. You certainly did a lot of them in the past days and there was not much time to sleep either. How do you bring that off and doesn’t it get tedious at some point?
Adrian Hates (DoD): No, it doesn’t get tedious. There are also many people among journalists, bracing themselves very well, do profound research and that brings lots of joy at times. That being said, I believe that if you’re not interested in talking about your own album that you, in essence, didn’t understand your job or calling completely. I don’t believe it’s in direct context with the artistic occupation but as soon as you decide to share this artistic occupation with a public, you have to be willing to talk about it. Somehow the audience wants to know a little about the record than what they can get out of it themselves. In that respect, it’s absolutely okay for me. Indeed, there wasn’t much time to rest since the album is definitely done but the next tour certainly comes and then there’ll surely be some time to sleep over… sometime. (laughs)

RoD: Where did the people who asked for interviews and were interested in the album come from?
DoD: All over the place. It’s currently being organized by Albert, who’s planning all the interviews for me. Actually something of everywhere and we’re currently working it off a bit nation-wise depending on when the record comes out there. Soon there’ll be a big block with several days Russia or also Greece. Depends on the need and where big interest is. I’m answering every interview out of hand as long as it’s not for private purposes.

RoD: You’re getting such requests too? (Maybe I’m looking a little surprised right now...)
DoD: Of course, then you sometimes have to look if they actually have a forum. Sometimes these are their private websites with about two visitors a month. Then it’s an interview for a private person which isn’t a bad thing for me at all and which you can do admittedly from time to time. Sometimes you’re answering such questions after a concert. But if another interview comes off badly because of it, it’s much more important to serve the magazine, portals etc. reaching a certain audience.

RoD: But now to the actual topic… the upcoming new album. The announcement of such an early release date surprised me, frankly as the tour still was in full swing when you’re starting with the production. Where do you get the strength from as it’s not only taking lots of time but also is emotionally demanding?
DoD: We basically have the concept to have no concept, that is, you’re going at every new album with an entirely new approach not to transfer any systematic from the last to the new album concerning the order as well, that is, which part you’re doing first. Then we had a real highlight topic year with Accession records in 2007. [:SITD:] came out with a new album, Assemblage 23 released one and also DIARY OF DREAMS. Then we were extremely busy of course, but we also knew we wouldn’t release these topics in 2008 which created lots of free space. Then we had several conversations with bands and we considered how far it would make sense to do 2 or 3 newcomers and nothing more. It’s my opinion that you must rather take newcomers as appendix for a bigger topics. Anything else would be economical madness. Sad, it’s like this but it is like this and so we decided we wouldn’t do anything else in 2008. We would pause and I was completely aware of the fact that people would start to take about it but I don’t care in the end. We’re one of the oldest labels in this scene. That’s a fact! Not many possess 13 years.

RoD: …Labels really have a tough time lately…
DoD: Exactly! You can see that on a few current examples (Wherewith Adrian seems to hint at Gun Records amongst others). But I rather pause one year than doing crap a whole year and then I have all new capacities and possibilities I just hadn’t in the past years. That always has been a great organisational dilemma how to allocate time between the office, studio and concerts. It was constant juggling with time. I’m still juggling with time but on a different luxury level; how much time I spent in the studio or on stage and that’s an entirely different approach. Corresponding, we could riot concerning the live presence, like on the Russia or Greece tour. Always when I was back home then I did my basic share of office and label work and in other respects made music. You can’t make music all the time, you don’t want to anyway. There should be an inner need not a logical one like “I have to do that now!”

Especially during the compositional process it’s important for you to have a certain mood to work from. For the additional work of producing and mixing it’s not that important. It’s more of a technical, rather than a creative work, even though there’s creative room there too, even if it’s a smaller one than with the writing. Then in my free time between the concerts I simply worked on the album and because of private events was blessed with inspiration as well as emotionally challenged during that time. Then, you’re seeing lots of things, meet lots of people. You’re in the most different situations in which you’re re-discover yourself over and over again and in many situations in life you’re asking yourself certain questions; for me these are the famous If-questions and if you realize these questions become more frequent, maybe you’re writing them down some time which can be very useful.


RoD: And how about the corresponding answers?
DoD: I believe, you don’t need answers to many questions but a proposed solution which I wouldn’t consider an answer, rather a different approach. To handle the problem brought up by the question. A simple example “I’m miserable! Why am I miserable and what can I do to change that?” Then the approach “What can I do to change that?” would be far more constructive than the question “Why am I miserable?” Often it’s also a thing that’s like a needle in a Haystack; maybe it’s not an easy topic to explore either; maybe it’s a characteristic of the personality of you being in a certain emotional direction more often than in another and then the quest for the “Why?” is much tougher than the quest for a better handling of the situation itself. IN my case these ‘If-Questions’ are clearer and more precisely worded, if I have them here in cold print and I just found it too simple to accumulate them and have them simply standing there as text. Very fast I had the idea that it’s much more exciting to grasp and experience a question if it’s not presented as a question but as a story. That was my approach that led to 16 little stories in the end.

RoD: The Cover of the album, in sharp contrast to the radical approach of Nekrolog 43, is kept rather modest. A hand, reaching out to the observer; like an open question that’s yet to be answered or the symbol of a chance you never took, because you chose to walk a different path in the end. Why did you decide to transfer the modest elegance of the title (if) to the album cover as well, instead of putting both in a sharp contrast to each other.
DoD: Of course it’s true that, if you’re comparing the two covers directly, the (if) cover appears a little mousy but it’s not weak; it’s a very strong cover and has lots of emotion and meaning and it fits perfectly to the title (if). The second aspect is that you can’t come with an optical jackhammer for such a private and emotional album as (if) is one. That would seem like far-fetched and not appropriate. The third and simple reason is that you can’t put another superlative next to a cover like the one of ‘Nekrolog 43’, because it’s already there. There’s no superlative of the superlative, so we thought it would be smarter and more adequate in any case to calm things down again, that is, to pour oil on troubled waters.

RoD: While we’re talking about design. The 48-sided booklet of the ltd edition comes in a bigger format than usual; also to pay tribute to the box. Can we already draw some info about the special format the package will be released in? Why all these efforts with the packaging? Not that we’re curious… ;-)
DoD: On the one hand I found that people didn’t spot the difference between the two packaging of ‘Nekrolog 43’ really, which made me really sad as there’s a huge difference in the packaging. The Ecolbook is a really wonderful packaging. I believe many people just were unsettled because we also had a nice packaging on the normal edition as usual with the slipcase. I believe people couldn’t really distinguish what’s making this one more special than the other. So I quickly felt the need to visibly set both versions apart from each other again and even now the normal edition comes with a 24-page booklet which you hardly find everywhere.

The people of a certain label which is also cooperation partner of ours tabbed their foreheads at me when I came with a 24-sided booklet, as they told me not even the biggest artist on their label had such a thing. This is something that really makes me sad, because they shouldn’t be wondering if that shows up in the sales figures accordingly. I find it’s an overall visual and acoustic experience and you need to have the chance to experience it as such but if you’re narrowing down one component so it’s hardly recognizable anymore why would I necessarily connect that acoustic experience to a CD as there are other media, legal and illegal ways, to make for this experience, perhaps in poorer quality but they enable everybody to have and you wouldn’t hear the difference on a computer speaker anyway. But apart from these aspects I just wanted to do something big. We intended to roomy visualize the band and the mood of the CD, with lots of space; many close shots and single portraits, so there would be lots of things to experience visually in this box. I also wanted a photo next to each song text to comply with each song and to transport and multiply the emotions.

RoD: You were working with Annie Bertram again, who contributed the photos to the booklet. Were the ideas to the photos all yours or did Annie (A great artist I rate highly by the way) contribute lots of input as well. Which ideas are coming from you and what share does she have on the story?
DoD: That’s always kind of a give and take thing, I believe. If you’re working with good, creative people, it’s always like that. One takes good photos, another one has good ideas, the one taking the good photos has got good ideas too, the one with the good ideas in turn says to the photographer “Hey, let’s do it this or that way for once”. Then the graphic designer also has good ideas and does his picture selection entirely different than the rest. It’s a huge circuitry, not resting before everything’s finished; where you’re pleased time and time again about every idea each one brings in. Also Gaun:A being very practised in graphics and Albert had a large input. It was a big pool of ideas; and Angelique, who’s working for us as a model. The entire team was a very constructive and productive one. Also Tanja Bonensteffen who was there as a “Making-Of Photographer” so to speak and at the same time as video assistant; it was great and we worked together incredibly well; fed each other the lines. Then you can’t say he or she had more influence. This is also something repugnant to us. You’re not doing such a thing for such a long time to say, without him this wouldn’t have been possible, in the end. We were just a great team and the end result really is wonderful and consistent and I’m really pleased we could do it as we did.

RoD: Speaking of video. On 19th February there was a video clip premiere on Myspace. It’s the first time in your career that there’s a video and frankly, this news was a big surprise for me.
DoD: Well, it’s not like I never wanted to something like that before. But on the one hand it was often just a lack of time; on the other hand there was always the question whether to invest the money here or there. Obviously I chose to invest it into the other; into other promotional means. For Nigredo I put every dime into the photos as Island isn’t really a cheap matter. This time I was saving costs on other ends which are not visible to the fans, luckily. The print media! They have to live with that; I’m doing it as well. I simply believe that a fan is much more pleased by watching a nicely crafted video clip than looking at an ad.

RoD: For which song did you shoot the video clip?
DoD: We all opted for the opener ‘The Wedding’ but you shouldn’t consider it a single; that’s not it. It’s just a great number and an absolutely relentless story with lots of ambiguities and room for interpretations. People most likely will direct their thoughts into one specific direction but I don’t care. They’re free to believe that I’m married now. It doesn’t matter! The topic was just great fun for me. The track just emerged for us. Then we sat together, listened to the CD when everything was on a production level where you could say the songs were clearly recognizable. Then we met with the whole band, crew etc., listened to some material together, and discussing it as well.

Then we had a room full of people and I just watched everyone and everybody instantly responded to ‘The Wedding’; enthusiasm all over the place. It caused pictures in their heads. People said “This is going to be live smasher!” And that was the point where I said “That’s totally it! That’s why the song needs a video clip!” And then we created a story together with Guido Fricke (Audion X) to visualize the whole thing properly; harmonized it with the photo planning, so the whole thing was done within three days altogether. But it was really exhausting and a pile of equipment we had. All in all three cars headed there every time. That was totally off the chain!!!

But I also have to admit that I found the results made with video clips to be either amazingly bad or amazingly expensive with not much in-between. But now I’m so amazed by what Guido has created. It deeply impressed and overwhelmed me in a way that I can only praise it to the skies. It wasn’t my effort, so I can just do that for once. I for one am extremely impressed and I can say with a clear conscience “Look forward to the video clip!” as it’s excellently crafted and there’s really no qualitative difference to other video clips you get to see, that is, real big productions. It premiered on Myspace on 19th February and then our “executive floor” has bothered what to do with it in the aftermath. You’ll see what that will be!

RoD: Let’s revert back to the album once more and to the production topic. In the past you’ve produced all the albums yourself, like this one. Why? And was there ever any consideration to do it a different way?
DoD: In the end, I believe, you’re going the way which is the right one for you and sometimes you just have to re-discover or discover it anew. I just have the great privilege to have gathered a team of creative and excellent musicians and technicians around me and I’m amazed by what this team has accomplished once again and also working with Daniel Myer of MKM Productions for one year until our ears were bleeding, that was great! That was a very close collaboration and he’s a great guy too! It was so amazing that we decided to found a production company together to offer our experiences and abilities to young musicians in the future. I think it’s apparent after the experiences we made; after the knowledge level we’ve reached; the horizon that you could expand for yourself. We’ve done the most different things with the album and new-found several things for us; on one hand reduced our gear and on the other hand also enlarged it; adjusted it even more to our needs.

That was incredibly clever and incredibly effective and so we, Daniel and I, got great results like I think. And Daniel also pestered and challenged me and has, to my mind, and together with Gaun:A, made me a better singer than before and I’m always trying to get better and I believe it’s not because you’re saying “I’m not good enough!” but because you’re saying “You can do better”. I believe that every musician should have this personal claim and most have it I believe and so I used our combined power to realize where the strengths and weaknesses are and to elaborate on them. Then we mixed the whole thing with Rainer Assmann, mastered it with Christian Zimmerli and have recorded vocals for, I believe it was three songs, at Maratone Studios in Hamburg

RoD: Speaking of vocals. They’ve become very eclectic again and reach from very dark and powerful to delicate and very fragile. Are you specifically working on your voice or is it just emerging in the process of the album?
DoD: Like I said, I do work on my voice. It’s a very important goal for me to rise above yourself, re-invent yourself and at some point realize that the vocal potential is bigger than you would believe it yourself. I did a lot of singing in the past years, through the live shows, though the rehearsal and so on. Especially during last year I was either sitting here in the studio and challenged myself or on stage or in the rehearsal room and if you’re getting so much practise in one year, you’re getting better! I listened to some live recordings lately and it’s so clear in certain situation you were singing about 15 times or so. The small details perhaps nobody else hears but I can hear it; details that are getting more and more precise and accurate. That’s an achievement and you’re taking it, as improvement, into the new studio recordings.

RoD: We already talked about ‘The Wedding’. That was also one of the songs I was instantly impressed by, even though we could only listen to snippets. It sounds much more organic as a whole. Did you break new grounds concerning the instrumentation? Or did it just ‘happen’ during the process?
DoD: I think you can hear that a lot of acoustic guitars in it. Lots of straight and relatively rough produced E-Guitars, just appearing very massive. Furthermore we tried not to repeat ourselves concerning sound and composition but doing new things. To go one better, especially with the drums, to be much more diverse! The ¾ beat on the song is also an exciting thing. I already did that before and it’s certainly no revolution in music history. It’s just a nice diversity and that in relation to a piece like ‘The Wedding’. This association (RoD: Yeah, the first dance) combined with the ¾ beat. It just fits! If you’re dealing closely with such details, you often realize how much thought has gone into the planning of such a thing in the end; how much it all adds up in the end; that it can’t be a product of coincidence in most cases. There’s lots of calculation and emotional craft in it.

But apart from that we just did what made us happy and laid our works and sounds like we thought was right. Daniel and I mostly were the architects of the foundation and then it added up more and more and at the end Gaun:A’s presence was quite strong again. Was less in the first third, but that was mostly because it was very important to me to do the core, the essence of the songs on my own because of their private nature. Then it was just Daniel and me for a big part and then it changed time and time again. Sometimes it was Gaun:A and me, then again I and Daniel, or somebody new came in. We’ve never worked like this before but it also keeps your mind fresh and keeps you from getting into a rut; so you’re not creating recipes for your own music. That would be boring!

RoD: People would hear that some day...
DoD: They would! I also believe that authenticity is what our highest good is and if you’re damaging that by making such a ritual project out of it, it wouldn’t be good. Like adding up precast plots! We could do that; it wouldn’t be a problem; we’ve done enough songs and we could easily do a ‘Traumtänzer’ or a ‘Butterfly:Dance’ again but there wasn’t such a thing ever since and we don’t want to do it again because we’ve already done it!

RoD: Other bands would have no problems with that (laughs)
DoD: Yes, but I do believe, they’ll out-manoeuvre themselves sooner or later. I think you can do other exciting things as well. You can tell by the audience for instance, that they’ve a similar flexibility which always makes me very happy. A nice example from us: Gaun:A and I were great fans of ‘Soul Stripper’ right from the start, always integrated it into our set, but initially it had a very tough time with the fans, because no one really accepted it and meanwhile it’s a highlight for the fans and I think that’s quite funny, because it’s gone from one extreme into the other. Sometimes you just have to believe in a song and to just push it through if you’re realizing its potential. If you just look which highlights you hook up to each other it’s very interesting, especially with Diary. On the one hand you have such songs like ‘AmoK’ or the acoustic version of ‘She and her Darkness’ and on the other hand you’ve a song like ‘Soul Stripper’, ‘The Curse’ or ‘Butterfly:Dance’ which are completely different  from their character. Nevertheless, they’re absolute highlights for the fans and for us and that’s much better as the same song just with different lyrics for the entire concert.

RoD: Once more back to the album. You said you’re working in the beginnings because of the private and personal nature of the songs. There are some songs that instantly get to you and for which you might need a tissue. ‘Requiem 4.21’ or ‘Kingdom of Greed’ that with its instrumentation, especially with the wonderful piano line almost makes the lyrics dispensable! What did you feel while recording the songs?
DoD: Depends on! Sometimes it was an exhilarating feeling, like hovering, that is, I have an incredible feeling of release but sometimes it’s rather like being dragged into an abyss like with ‘Requiem 4.21’. That’s similar to ‘The Valley’ but ‘Requiem 4.21’ was 2 floors deeper. It was one of the first songs I wrote for the album. It took some time for me to get the courage to make music again; not because I feared it but I now hat making music would do to me. Sounds strange, unfortunately it’s very true! The moment I’m making music I’m digesting what’s been resting once more and the things get through the entire organism two times which can be difficult in some cases. Then I have to gather enough strength sometimes to be able to do it and that’s why a pushed it back for a while and then I was also sick for a long time what didn’t make things easier, so I just hung around for  awhile, did the concerts, and  then started working.

RoD: Like on the last record, a very poignant and sad ballad is closing the new album, namely ‘Kingdom of Greed’. Was it intended? That’s what I assume but why? How do you settle the track order for an album?
DoD: Sad ballads at the end almost have something like a tradition with Diary. It actually started with ‘Cholymelan’ already and permeates every album and sometimes they fall into this sullen melancholy. I think the order emerges by itself. You see very quickly that it just has to be in a certain order and I won’t conform to any conventions regarding this as you can see on the current album again. Everybody, looking at this from a commercial perspective would have put such a song like ‘Requiem 4.21’ into the second third of the album. For me it’s a really important and deep song and an unbelievable contrast to ‘The Wedding’. It’s an unbelievable suspense you’re going through to be flung into ‘Odyssey Asylum’ afterwards. That’s fantastic!

Gaun:A, Albert, and me, each one on its own, created a track-listing and when we synchronized them, the first six tracks were all the same. The rest of the tracks often varied and with one track we were not sure if it would make the album or the bonus CD. We could solve that quite fast because I did another mix for it and that opened everybody’s eyes. ‘21 Grams of Nothing’ just needed to be on the album. It’s a song I really love and which is of much importance to me and one of the most important stories on the album besides ‘Requiem 4:21’. That’s basically the quest we already had with the mythology in Nigredo, embodied in a different way. The quest for the thing you don’t know what it is. This typically human “The main point is that I’m searching!” and “Give me answers!” Answers, potentially not helping you at all!

And so I think the track listing of an album comes about by itself. It’s an energy flow which just has to work and that’s how the 4 bonus tracks came about. They were just there. It wasn’t us sitting there saying “That’s the B-Material that’s going to be on the Bonus CD” and many ask if that’s old material or if that’s a remnant of a past album session but it’s out of the same production. We produced 16 tracks. 12 will be on the main album and 4 on the bonus CD and that’s because we couldn’t integrate them into the album flow. Could have been other tracks as well!

RoD: It struck my attention that on several tracks the guitars are very present; in ‘Poison Breed’ or ‘Wahn!Sinn’ for instance. Perhaps not as strong as I had almost wished for after the latest live shows but definitely more than in the past! It’s going to be a real axe on stage! How did you approach the guitar work? Did Gaun:A contribute many new chords now and how will you present the whole thing live?
DoD: Well, I played many of the guitars myself. That came about mostly because I mainly worked alone in the beginnings and then I had a melody in my head all f a sudden and luckily Gaun:A is such a one time colleague, guitarist and friend that he said “If you have a melody for a guitar then record it! Don’t wait for me to come with an idea, just play!” and so I recorded the guitars for ‘Requiem 4.21’ myself because I knew exactly what I wanted; same with ‘The Wedding’. It happens as it happens and it’s good that way and if you have a team, thinking the same way and not “The main point is that I have a big share in it” which we all know very well from the beginnings.

Something nobody needs; a self-projection fetish and we’re a team of people working perfectly together and I’m grateful for every single one of them; for every single input they contribute, open myself to it and I’m always poised to listen to it to discuss it if necessary; maybe to realize later what is the gain of this idea. But with such people it really makes sense to discuss it, because they’re people with a long experience and they know what they’re talking about. I’m totally on the same page with you regarding the live execution; that’ll be one hell of a pleasure and a crunch encounter on stage; and I’m already looking forward the tour but there still is lots of work to do. Another word about the guitar work which also goes back on the overall album work: We don’t have a recipe! There’s a song and an idea and then we start working. Sometimes a fair axe comes out of it; sometimes not and I think we’re not a classical rock band and that’s why I don’t want to sound like one. I don’t know what the next album will sound like but this one sounds as it sounds. (laughs)

RoD: Will there be special stage outfits and decorations for the next tour which will certainly come soon or are you going to keep it modest this time?
DoD: I’m not 100% certain yet, of course I have ideas. We have created a certain style with the photo shooting and I think the photos reflect what the album’s reflecting acoustically. It was an important concern of mine to make people see that here are 4 musicians, adoring their job and their art but still are serious characters even though if they belong to an alternative music industry; even if they don’t have lots of golden discs, because it makes sense what they’re doing and you’ll see then what’ll happen live.

RoD: Speaking of ‘Live’: The album release is followed by an extensive tour through many countries; where will you play, except for Russia, as announced a couple of times.
DoD: We’ll have 4 weeks in Russia and for the rest I think we won’t spare many places on the globe.

RoD: When will you play here in Germany? Still takes a while, I guess?
DoD: Yes, at least in great style whereas there are some ideas already but I can’t talk about ideas.

RoD: Only a few days ago you played a show together with DAS ICH and INSTRICT CONFIDENCE. I was deeply impressed by Bucharest and the people there. It was very nice in my opinion. The mood during the concert was great. How did you experience the time there, not just on stage, and the reaction of the audience?
DoD: This time we had the problem of being placed in a very outlying hotel. We couldn’t just walk out of the hotel and into the historic city but we’ll definitely come back and do that next time. On the other hand you have to see we had a very rare band constellation this time which doesn’t come together very often: IN STRICT CONFIDENCE and DIARY OF DREAMS. That was much fun and you have to enjoy such a thing. We’re the first, as DIARY OF DREAMS, taking the time to explore the new cities and countries; as far as possible but this time it just wasn’t possible in a complexity we had wished for. The audience was great, frenetic, and enthusiastic! It was a great mood and we had much fun. I have the feeling the older we get and the longer we travel, the better it gets!

RoD: Torben was on stage with you again How come?
DoD: Taste’s time is very limited at the moment and that’s why his presence will be very limited right now and we have to see what’ll be in the future. I can’t foresee that right now and Torben’s not involved in a way he was back then. I‘ve always said that Torben’s never gone, actually he’s always there; he’s just not visible and right now people can see him again because he’s on stage with us again at the moment. But he’s always a creative partner we have and he’ll certainly do a few more shows with us this year but not all!

RoD: Then we’re already done or is there something else you want to get off your chest?
DoD: I can only say thank you for the support and consideration, for the critical discussion of the material we present but in a constructive way. It’s very pleasing to me and it’s something you have to be grateful for.

RoD: Many thanks to you too!

After the interview, as a little treat so to speak, I got the chance to listen to the full-length version of the oft-mentioned ‘The Wedding’. Amazing sound and the song creates pictures before the mind’s eye right away. (No, I won’t reveal mine) and I can understand why this song was chosen for the video.

So let’s look forward to 13th March and (if) now.


Interview by Daniela Vorndran, translation by Sebastian Huhn
Promo pictures by Annie Bertram (http://www.darkview.de/)
{jos_sb_discuss:21}

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