Interview with Heather Wayward ( vocals) and Patrick Georg Kasperski (music) from Cyanbaal
CYANBAAL is a German-American Electro Dark Wave project founded by Patrick M. Wenzel, also known as Georg Kasperski, in 2014. Initially featuring Zattna Uhm as a part-time member until 2019, the project took a new turn in 2020 when singer-songwriter Heather Wayward joined. Patrick’s experimental approach to electronic music, combined with Heather’s dynamic contributions, creates a unique, haunting harmony that defies traditional genre classification. Their music delves into psychologically disturbed themes reminiscent of Lovecraft’s cosmic horror and Tim Burton’s fantastical worlds, blending brute song structures, hammering percussions, and dark, disturbing soundscapes. About the creative process, inspirations and more with Heather and Patrick.
Reflections of Darkness [RoD]: How did an American and a German meet and decide to create music together? Can you share the story of your first meeting at a German club and how you decided to collaborate?
Patrick: We met in person for the first time in Dresden in autumn 2019 at a FIX8 SED8/ PYRROLINE concert. Heather was already listening to my music at that time. We talked a lot about music, of course, and she asked if we would give a concert at some point. At that time, CYANBAAL was purely a studio project. The issue of singing was also a problem. Nobody really wanted to sing. I was already looking for a singer at the time. I asked Heather that weekend whether she would be interested in singing with CYANBAAL. So, we tried it later and it worked excellently. And so from then on there was also the possibility of considering live performances.
Heather: Yes, it’s true, I was a CYANBAAL fan first. By chance, I took a trip to see friends play live. I invited him to come to a club to meet up at a concert. Mostly to network with musical friends. Patrick once made a comment on my Facebook that he was looking for a singer. I kinda didn’t think he could be serious. But when we met we really got along. So, when he asked me to sing, I was surprised he was really serious. Once he did send me songs, then almost immediately Covid hit. It was great timing if you can say that. So I had the time to learn and move from avid listener / fan to the singer. Patrick was very encouraging and much to my surprise, it worked!
RoD: How did the transition from Zattna Uhm to Heather Wayward influence the direction of CYANBAAL’s music?
Patrick : The selection of songs has changed. Today, as in the past, we make a wide variety of songs that could be assigned to a wide variety of genres. The choice of songs that ultimately end up on a release has changed. Back then, we sometimes chose songs that we wouldn’t consider today. Many songs weren’t fully thought through. There were a lot of good ideas, but many songs should have been revised. For this reason, we also released the album ‘Living Tunnel’ again as a revision. That’s why we also included reworked songs from ‘Life Without Exit’ on the release. I could also imagine reworking one or two of the old songs in the future. What also has to be said is that Heather has a very critical ear and can hear subtleties better than I do. As a result, we don’t finish song production too fast, as has happened in the past. It also makes a big difference when you have someone who is fully focused on singing and writing lyrics and who also enjoys doing it.
Heather: When I first listened to CYANBAAL, I hardly noticed the difference in their voices. I thought Patrick just had a different way of using his voice. But it’s easy for me to hear it now when Zattna sings. It was an honour to meet Zattna in person on another trip to Germany. It was obvious, and a relief, that he was glad I had become a part of the project. As far as influences... My vocal style is that I don’t have just one. Same as for the songs CYANBAAL always has been. But I think I am able to provide even more diversity with a female vocal.
RoD: Heather and Patrick, how did your individual journeys with music begin? What were your musical ventures before CYANBAAL?
Patrick: I’ve been making music of and on since the early 90s. But it was all more like trying things out without any real releases. But that’s when the “rumbling” started. I was out and about in the relevant discotheques such as the ›Incident‹ in Bochum and at some point I started making music myself, which I didn’t publish at first.
Heather: When I was young, I was into the dark scene luckily at the greatest time you could. The 80s! The music movement was new and experimenting was sought after. I had a lot of variation in my musical choices. Dark embodied music would always be my choice and Electronic music was of course preferred. I collected and embedded myself in it. I always wanted to play an instrument but was never in a position for it. So, I wrote poems. Mostly of dark situations or profound happenings. A lot of internalizing. That solitude really made me indulge in the emotions of music.
RoD: How do you approach blending your voices to create the haunting harmonies CYANBAAL is known for?
Patrick: There were a few songs on the album ‘Cautionary Tales’ that we sang together. I was already working on the album when Heather joined CYANBAAL. As a result, many of the song lyrics had already been written and there were also vocal recordings. We then expanded the vocals for the songs that had previously only been instrumental songs. Heather then took over the vocals completely. For many songs, Heather had the ideas for expanding the vocals with her voice. That was definitely an enrichment for these songs.
Heather: Once again some encouraging words. Patrick was very patient with my integration. Singing together was helpful for we knew the contrast in our voices was unique. It was a good way to be more intimately involved from such a long distance away and learn style and technique. I quite like those songs even though we have moved on in style. We still have one or two duets sitting around for the right release.
RoD: What are some of the main influences behind your unique song structures and moods?
Patrick: The influences can be books, films or experiences. I like dark and morbid things which I then express in my creativity. If I were to paint, I would try to create a dark mood in my pictures. Mysterious, confusing images that stimulate the fantasy. I try the same with music. The images then arise in the head. When it comes to music / sound art, I find it fascinating how sounds change visual perception. I also like to add diffuse soundscapes to some songs to create a disturbing mood.
RoD: You incorporate elements of Lovecraft’s cosmic horror and Tim Burton’s magical worlds into your music. Why these particular influences? Are there any other hidden elements in your music that listeners should pay attention to?
Patrick: Lovecraft and Burton are very different but reflect exactly my joy in these two types of horror and scary things. One deals with a cold, bleak, incomprehensible terror. The other immerses you in a fantastic, scary world full of bizarre creatures and morbid stories. Terrifying horror and cosy, feel-good horror. I like scary things on different levels. Otherwise, my interest in science fiction/dystopias is also reflected in some songs.
Heather: I am comfortable in the dark, strange, and weirdly obscure. It intrigues me. I think this is why Patrick and I work so easily together. I think that once you have sat in solitude one way or another for a long period of time, it is a struggle to see the light in things. So finding something beautiful in what others would consider morbid, or pointing out beauty in an ominous creature is personally satisfying. I feel lucky to see such things. I am also an avid believer in earthly elements and their effects on animals and people. A lot of my songs will have subjects with animals or take place in the woods, (as does Patrick’s for that matter) but more recently my subjects have been more about the inner world of hope, loss and strength. I think everyone can relate to that these days. Our upcoming album has a lot of songs that have to do with finding the self within. But there are still a few ominous stories yet to be told.
RoD: Can you describe your creative process when working on new compositions and adaptations?
Heather: In the beginning, I took experiences from my past. ‘Mirage’ and ‘Taken’ are songs I actually adapted many decades old poems into songs. I am not one to pick subject matter and force a dialog about it. Story telling is really the best. I will listen to a song piece that Patrick has sent me and let it take me to an emotion, or a place that it creates in my mind. Sometimes it is hard to focus because I live a very busy work schedule. So, I will try to lock myself in a room all day. I’ll try to rest and listen. And listen and dance and listen. And then it will come. A story or a melody. Usually, a melody first. It will get stuck in my head. Sometimes really stuck. Sometimes it’s like free. It just comes out. Other times I have a very distinct subject I want to convey yet I try to keep it as obscure and give space to the listener to interpret it how they want. But I have been prone to just allowing the music to move me toward my compositions. Imagination has to be free to frolic. Be it darker or light. We have been able to have songs like ‘Flare’ and ‘Innocence’ that are very light listening. And also songs like ‘Anxiety complex’ or ‘Chinese Subway’ (written by Patrick) which challenges the listener to imagine something very different.
RoD: Listening to ‘Dark Reflections’ and ‘Living Tunnel’, I feel you translate complex psychological subjects into dreamy, complex, and dark sonic structures. How has your experimentation with different electronic music genres evolved over the years?
Patrick: I have always moved in different genres since I listen to very different types of music. I am also influenced by different areas. I would therefore not speak of a change in the development of our music, but rather a change in the choice of what we ultimately release under CYANBAAL. And here I would say that we have moved on to choosing more accessible music. There are more danceable songs. We now choose songs that are more in the dark electronic, cold wave area. The complex, multi-layered post-industrial tracks are slowly disappearing from our repertoire, if they were ever well represented at all.
Heather: I don’t think we worry about genre when creating. Subject content has been subliminally psychological I guess. Songs of Schizophrenia, and realms between dimensions are only quietly dark. Our music is not be negative or sad. We like to provoke curiosity and bewilderment. Even with some science fiction. But yes, we have moved to choosing releasing more powerful songs. Personally I like percussions and I think CYANBAAL embraces every sound with a percussive alignment that is mixed over special soundscapes. That hasn’t changed at all. But Patrick has really expanded his musical creations on our next album quite dramatically. They have more “aggressive” tactics recently in motion. This calls for a different type of lyrical content as well. More strength, more serious emotion. Maybe it will be more digestible by those who are searching for something different, but familiar. This should not be mistaken for falling toward mainstream. One listen and it’s obvious that is not the case. But I think at least the lyrical material is bit more relatable. Musically I think Patrick is rather genius in his creations of soundscapes. It really challenges me and that in itself is really fun. As we grow more together it takes a little longer to create songs, but I see this as developmental. Not only does regular daily life need to take place, we are more strategic in song creation and selection.
RoD: What challenges do you face while working remotely from each other, especially regarding live shows rehearsals, and promotion?
Patrick: Yes, it is indeed not so easy to work together when you live so far away from each other and also have to bridge a significant time difference. I usually send Heather song drafts, sometimes a complete song. Then we usually decide whether the song has potential. She sends me the track with her idea for the vocals and suggestions for changes to the music. Sometimes she adds more sound tracks to the song. It goes on like this for a while. Until we come to a result that is satisfactory to both of us. But it has also proven to be useful to send Heather songs that I didn’t initially like but later became my favourites. A good vocal track can make a big difference. We can only rehearse for a few days before we perform together. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen very often. For most of the performances in the USA, a guest musician friend of ours takes over my part, as I can’t travel long distances for every single concert.
Heather: Yes this is very difficult. I think our work would be much faster and probably more to our cohesive beliefs if we were closer. But it still works and we find ways around the hard parts. Concerts seem to be the best way to reach new listeners these days. I can perform here in the US with a friend for Patrick, but it is not the same for performances in Germany. The American scene is not so full of electronic bands like Europe and especially Germany. Although it is growing. We are always looking for opportunities to perform in Europe since the electronic music is more popular there. We do what we can with the short times we have when we visit the others country.
RoD: Heather is known for an impressive and intense image. Also your videos (like. e.g., for ‘Flare’ carry this unique a bit disquieting vibe to it). How do the visual aspects of your art represent your artistic vision, and how does this translate to your live shows?
Patrick: Heather creates her own style and I think it’s very cool.
Heather: Hey... Thanks for the great words Karolina! If I had full wardrobe, I would have some real fun! But I guess it’s a nice challenge to do it simply. I really find the vision of CYANBAAL to be minimal and unique dark humoured. It represents a lot of my own personal self-conceptions. So it’s fun to express that outwardly visually too. We still have much to do in expressing ourselves visually in videos. In the video ‘Flare’ the Pig and the Witch was a natural phenomenon. We both just let our inner selves just be out in the open. They are sort of our “id” so to speak. As for live, I sing which prevents a lot of my visions with masks and such, but using non-traditional make up techniques replace that. I am not that girl that has 1,000 articles of clothing or expensive make up. I recycle and create in the simplest way. But I can tell you the response we always get when performing live is that our energy is full on and really brings the music alive. “I get it now” is something I have heard many times.
RoD: How do you envision the future of CYANBAAL? Are there any upcoming projects or releases you can tease? Are you planning to visit Europe any time soon?
Patrick: We are currently working on our next album, which may be finished this year. We have also thought about releasing all the tracks that didn’t fit into our CYANBAAL concept separately. But that will probably remain just a nice idea for now. Of course, more concerts are planned in Europe and the USA for the future. But since we both work, something like that has to be planned well in advance. Of course, we are looking for opportunities to perform at festivals in order to reach a larger audience.
Heather: I just renewed my passport, so I am ready! The next album is going to be a bit different than what has been heard in the past. I am really excited for it. As expressed previously, we are taking our time to make it what we envision. We are working on some new video content as well. Mainly, we hope our reach expands us to a possible label that could help us collaborate for concerts and reach the world a little easier. Having this interview is a great step in that direction and we thank you very much for receiving us and putting us out to the black music scene in this way.
RoD: Thank you very much for your time!
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