I conducted this interview a few years ago during one of the Out of Line Weekender festivals. But for one reason or another, something always came up that delayed my work on it. Over the years, I’ve come to learn what a great person and musician Elliott is, and I truly appreciate how he has supported my homeland, Ukraine, since the beginning of this terrible war. Today, I’m truly proud to finally share this interview with you.Reflections of Darkness [RoD]: When did you get your first tattoo and what was it? Did it take much time until you decided to get it done?
Elliott:I made the first one when I turned 18, pretty close to my birthday. How long did I think about it? Not very long... I just did something. A friend of mine in school... I asked her to draw something. She did not know what she was drawing and I just said - some simple pattern, something that comes directly. So she did, and I went into the city and I got a tattoo. That’s what it was.
RoD: Do you still have this tattoo or have you made a cover?
Elliott:Yeah, it is this (showing the tattoo). I mean… I did not know what to do, I have never been good with pictures and I am terrible at drawing and all this stuff, but I knew that I wanted to get tattoos and I figured I should start with something. And I just went with it.
RoD: How many tattoos do you have? Could you please tell us their story?
Elliott:I do not know... Not that many. The thing is that they are usually quite big. Not many, but big. Maybe 10. Possibly. My favourite is this one (showing a tattoo). Because it is supposed to say “Till death”, but it did not manage very long as you can see.
RoD: Yeah, because it is a place where...
Elliott: Yeah... If it would be funny, I would say that I lasted longer than death (laughing). But... You know it is just funny, because of the message itself, like ‘this is with me until death’ and then you cannot see it any more.
RoD: But you know it is there!
Elliott:Yeah, it is like a practical joke almost, I like that. So regarding stories... I do not know, I kinda just decide on something and then I do it immediately. There is not a lot of thought that goes into it with me. It is usually just like: Iwanna do something - okay, I am booking it, I make an appointment and I am doing it now.
RoD: Yeah... I always need more time to think about what I want to do.
Elliott:If I start thinking about the thing like this, then I just end up not doing it… Cause if I start thinking: “Is it smart? - No. It costs a lot of money... Will it help me in any way? No, there is no positive benefit really...”. So I prefer not to think about it.
RoD: I thought to ask you if you have already done all the tattoos, but I think you will make more again (laughing).
Elliott:I still have some things I wanna do. I mean not everything needs...
RoD: To be done?
Elliott: Not everything needs to have a purpose. Some things you just have to do anyway.
RoD: Have all your tattoos been done by one tattoo artist or by different ones? How do you choose the tattoo artist? In addition, who draws your sketches?
Elliott: I choose the tattoo-artists because of their style for the most part. Seeing things that they have done that I like and I want to do that, and instead of asking somebody else to copy their style just go to the one who made that, who made that idea to begin with. I have some tattoos done by friends. One friend of mine did her second tattoo ever on my leg. She was practicing and I said - you can do on me. Stuff like that. I think it is five or six different artists.
RoD: Getting tattooed hurts, how do you cope with the pain during the sessions?
Elliott:I try to think of it as the cost of it. You pay the tattoo-artist because of their time, but I pay for the tattoo with pain. That’s how I see it. It is something that stays with you until you die or have it removed if you really want to, but...
RoD: But to remove it is more painful than making it.
Elliott:They say that.
RoD: I know this because a friend of mine removed some parts of the tattoo. After this you have a scar that looks like after fire.
Elliott:Oh, a burn injury. I do not want to do that ever. It seems very unpleasant. But yeah, I think pain is necessary. If it was not for that... I do not think the tattoo in itself would have as much value if it was not for pain. It is some sort of ritualistic thing. And the idea is “I really want to do this”. You have to be certain. So I try to just focus on being what I wanted. This is why you came here. The pain is part of it. It does not make it any more fun, but at least you remember why you did it.
RoD: How long was your longest session?
Elliott:I do not do more than three hours. There is no point, I just feel nauseous, bad. I burn through sugar quite quickly, so I completely loose the persistence. I just want to leave and I was talking to one tattoo-artist a few years ago and he said - if you feel like that then you should go...He said not to book any more than three hours, it does not make any sense. Rather do many short sessions then.
RoD: What is your taboo in terms of tattoos? What kind of tattoo would you never get done and don’t like to see on other people?
Elliott: I hate tribals. Absolutely hate them. I have done it. That’s actually true, I have done one cover. It was an idea that turned out to be more tribals than I wanted, so I actually changed it. Other than that... I do not understand people who tattoo their eyeballs and stuff like this… It just feels unnecessary. Okay, maybe it looks cool, but risking your vision... I would never go so far. Other than that - no; just give me a drunk and tattoo gun and I will say yes to anything (laughing).
RoD: Some people say that the drive to acquire body art is addictive while others say it fails to meet the true definition of an addiction, simply calling it a passion. Is it really impossible to stop?
Elliott:I think if you do a lot of sessions in a row or over a month or you start the next one after this, then it quickly does become addictive. With the amount of pain and damage you do to your body your mind is sending serotonin to cope with it, and this is what becomes addictive. That’s what addiction is. And I felt that. But for me it is a blessing in disguise that it is so expensive, so I don't really get addicted, I cannot afford it.
RoD: Currently, tattoos are a new trend; many people do not care about the meaning, they just want to have something coloured on the skin, to be in trend. Those people often just go into a tattoo salon and ask which drafts they have. Tattoo artists are not artists any more, they produce consumer goods. Not all of them, of course. How do you feel about this situation?
Elliott:I do not agree. It has always been a trend; it has just been in different layers of society. And now it has become accepted in the mainstream, which means there is a broader spectrum of people who want them, but they do not know how it works. Neither did I for the first time. I would not pass blame on anybody else saying “you do not belong here”, they just have not done it before, they do not know how it works. And like I said - you start with something; how else can you do it? And I think it is the artist’s choice what to do. I know a lot of artists who just say “No” to walk-ups. I was having a session and one guy came asking “Can I do this?”, and the artist said “No” (well, you can do it, but not here). And this guy coming up from the street was trying to offer him 200 - 300 Euro, but he said “No, no! Not interested”. It is as easy as that. There is no obligation to tattoo-artist to do anything. They can close down the shop if they want to, fuckoff people! It really comes to: are they interested in making money? Then they can do all this flash art bullshit from walk-ups, who have no idea and they are drunk, whatever it is... Or they can say “No” to that. I think it is that simple.
RoD: I would like to talk about the social aspect of tattoos, too. Previously, many people believed that if you have a tattoo, you will be never be successful and will not find a “good” job. Have this state of mind and people's perceptions changed or are these prejudices still alive?
Elliott:I think it is about the same still. Again, it is a tribalistic stuff, it is rituals and tribes. We look at other people and we judge them from their appearance, everybody does this. We try ourselves with accepting people, but we do not. We do not accept them; we just accept us. It is a mentality; it is just the way it is. Obviously for everybody: you are born without tattoos and then you see someone with tattoos - it is different. And then you see 10 - of course that becomes something hostile, something different sort of element. Regardless if it becomes mainstream and “everybody” has tattoos. I mean, what does that mean? Hundred thousand, two hundred thousand out of millions and millions of people. So, it is still an alternative lifestyle choice. And it still means that when you apply for a job, you might not get hired because of visible tattoos. Still, absolutely. I get this since I have got the tattoo on my hand. But I knew it would be an issue of course, I was not being naive, I was 30. But I was surprised to what extent it actually makes a difference. For example, ever since then if I say “hello” to somebody, they look at my hand first and then they look at my face. It is very clear. Before that they would always look at my face, look at my eyes, now they look at my hand first. And obviously then I went - well, fuck it, I have already put myself here, so I can just make visible tattoos, so the throat came next. Which is actually better, now they at least have to look at the direction of my head (laughing). But yeah, people judge… They think I am insane. The worst part, what I really hate, is that they think I have some sort of desire to be seen. That I like to be in the centre, or I should be the one dancing and screaming all the time. That’s what they believe. And I can understand this, because it is putting me in this kind of light. But it is not necessarily what one wants. And for a lot of jobs, for example if you want to hire someone for a low-key kind of service job, then they might not want this.
RoD: Yeah, I working in IT, so for us it is not a problem. It becomes a problem if you are working with customers. For example, in our team I am the only one person who has tattoos, but I try to make them so that they are not visible. In Germany it is still in this way. And I think it is wrong, because if you have tattoos it says nothing about your job qualities. It is only in people’s heads.
Elliott:That is also dependent a lot on the fact that the lifestyle within tattoo subculture, whatever you would want to call it, marks it itself. Like some sort of extreme lifestyle people. It is all craziness, and you know - insane colours and all of this shit. Of course, people look at all of this rhetoric, this superlative nonsense. And they go - ugh, no, these people might be annoying, everything is crazy about them all the time. They want to turn it down. And frankly I feel sort of the same way, when I see a bunch of tattooed loud people. You know, I clench my fists in my pockets and I go - you, young people with all your stupid tattoos. I mean, it is very easy to build a judgement and I keep coming back to this. You know, people ask me: do you regret making tattoos - no; do I want to have them - not always. I think it is just an extravagant and individualistic thing, which is really just vain and kind of stupid. But we are allowed, right? We can do whatever the fuck we want. But the problem is - we do send signals to other people. And they do not believe that we are able to do simple things then.
RoD: They do not understand those signals.
Elliott: Yeah, exactly. They don’t understand the signals, exactly, that’s the thing.
RoD: Because for me the tattoos are some ways to make me how I see myself.
Elliott:Yep; but you know there are a lot of people who make tattoos to become a part of something else. They fuck up the statistics. And I cannot tell them that’s the wrong way; if they really want to belong to a subculture where everybody is kind of damaged - good, go for it, fine! You must really have problems, but okay, if that fits you - great...But I do not do it for that reason. But I mean, the third person in this story, how would they know? They see no difference, they just see - oh, they all have tattoos, they must be all fucking crazy. In some sense I guess we are.
RoD: A little bit, yes. Which advice would you give to people who are going to get their first tattoo? How to choose a tattoo artist? Colour or black and white? Any practical advice?
Elliott:Think big. Make them bigger. First tattoo - everybody does it too small, too simple. You see, you ask someone “Show me your first one” and you can always call - oh yes, that’s it, exactly. Think bigger. It is expensive, yeah sure, but why to stop at 150 euro then, why not to go to 250, 300 Euro. Go higher, do more, crazier thing! You will be more satisfied.
Project by Daria Tessa and Daniela Vorndran, Interview by Daria Tessa and Olena Pletnova
Pictures by Daria Tessa (https://www.facebook.com/tessaswelten)
